General Discussion

All right, bulk of the work is done. IP system has been slapped under mechanics, go take a look. I re-worked some of the prices for constructs. My app is already done and just waiting to be looked over by a moderator so if you guys want to go ahead and complete yours be my guest. Unless you want to suggest more traits.

I'm gonna throw up a couple more things today. Public approval ratings, economy ratings, etc. Then probably a few more traits and constructs but after that I think we'll be ready to launch. I'm waiting till after everyone has finished their apps to post prices for specialist units because I want to see what the average IP generation is to make it fair for smaller countries.

I'm going to start approving applications, so finish 'em!

Dangit Saf, I'm swimming in homework! If everyone wants to start up the green light now, go for it, but I'm probably not going to be able to get my app up till this weekend.

Still too undeveloped. If I can find the time I will give you half a dozen more traits.

Can I suggest we nix the Confederacy government and split monarchy into absolute and constitutional? Confederacy's bonus is crap and it's weakness hurts, so it's underpowered, and monarchy fits the period better.

Won't be finishing my empire that soon. It's morphing a lot as I think about it. Right now It's some mix of celtic and baltic customs with Babylonian mythology.

I was wondering why destroyers are so cheap? I mean they're equal to a Cav Brigade but I beleive that the Destroyers, Capable of fighting air and subs, have a clear advantage in combat that cav units don't. Shouldn't the Destroyers cost more like 5/3 or 6/4 (like the cruisers because the destroyers, much like the cruisers are specialized in fighting two types of enemies, from the air and below the sea where as the cruisers are specialized at fighting enemies on the sea and below it).

Just my two cents. Also Militarized Country, wouldn't it be better to have like a 10%/15% on all Military Constructs instead of 50% (which is huge) for three military constructs?

A question about Imperial Gaurd and Partasians. They say they require a certain type of barracks. Does that mean when you build a Military Barracks you designate it as just a normal Military Barracks that provides a free inantry regiment (conscripted) or make it an Imperial Barracks/Guerilla Barracks so you can recruit those type of units (but doing so negates the free infantry regiment yes?)

Another question though for the Oil Refinery and Industrialized farming. Those aren't by region but are on a nation wide scale similar to Military Blocs yes?

To the first, I'm tinkering around with unit prices to see what works best. They will probably change over the next week or so. And yeah with militarized country, again another thing that's probably going to change.

For specialist units like Imperial Guards and Gureillas, you need a seperate construct altogether. I just haven't gotten a chance to post them up under the constructs page just yet.

And the last part, its a two part answer. Initially, that answer is yes. I don't ever want a nation if he's invaded to completely lose all of its oil assets. So generally, your starting oil production is on a nationwide basis. BUT once you start expanding into oil rich areas, that will depend on region. Same with farming.

And I split the Monarchies up. Pro's / Con's anyone?

Constitutional Monarchy:
In this form of government, the Monarch exists as the head of state within the parameters of the constitution. Generally, a constitutional monarchy has been stripped of most of its powers and serves as more of a figurehead. While the real politics of the nation are conducted in a Parliamentarian system. However, there have been cases where a constitutional monarch has existed side by side with a Fascist dictator.

Absolute Monarchy:
In an Absolute Monarchy, all the political power of a state has been vested in one individual as both head of state and government. An absolute monarch wields absolute power over the state and its subject people, in effect his word is law. Though an Absolute Monarchy may have weak or symbolic parliaments, in reality the monarch is quite capable of dissolving these at will. The monarch is the state in this society.


I was also thinking maybe we should change Luxury Node to Manufacturing Node? What do you guys think? Manufacturing makes more sense to me as certain areas are Manufacturing Hubs like Detroit for example or the Ruhr Valley in WWII for the German's.

The only problem with manufacturing nodes is that manufacturing centers can be built. Luxury at least suggests the idea of raw resources that are sent back to prosperous lands, like sugar, silk, tea, tobacco, and untold other natural resources which were consumed by Europe's elite were.

Of course, that supposes we have static resources. If that doesn't happen then there's little reason to have the system in the first place.

Also, you don't have the rules down for traits. Are we using the WE system of 3,4,5 & weaknesses, or one from each, or what?

Here's some suggestions for traits and government stuff:

Absolute Monarchy:
Pro: Decisive - Absolute monarchs suffer no checks on their power. With a word they can implement revolutionary new policies and change the very structure of their kingdoms, a great advantage over their dithering opponents.
- (Could be a general Income bonus, or something more specific)
Con: Favoritism - When power is centered around one person, being close to that man or woman can be the difference between power and obscurity, even in the most meritocratic systems
- (Could use the difference from Royal Privilege, or something different)

Constitutional Monarchy:
Pro: Cultural Legitimacy - Same as Monarchy now

New traits:

Industrialist - The government maintains a policy of subsidizing and supporting major industries, and has been rewarded by a powerful industry.
- Constructs are 10% cheaper

New Army - Rather than wait for precedent to change, military leadership has imposed reform and modernization upon the army, emphasizing new tactics and technologies at the expense of older, "outdated" models.
- Cannot recruit cavalry brigades
- Armored and mechanized units fight as Veterans

BUT once you start expanding into oil rich areas, that will depend on region. Same with farming.

If this is the case you need to mark resorce rich areias on the map before we decide where we want our nations to be situated. No one wants to land all their regins in non-resorce rich areias.

Doesn't really matter Majorie, your going to have 15 oil units to start off with regardless of where you place your country and oil nodes won't be too far away. The point is to make you fight for them. I like the trait for New Army but its not enough of a con. Maybe because New Armies are supposed to be small and flexible they can only recruit a certain number of units? Or units cost double? As for the rules, they are going to be one for each. No stacking.

i picked my regions for location i could care less if there are resources there or if there aren't any when every thing comes together it just gives me another reason to star kicking over the tea cart.

Luxury nodes, it doesn't state in the mechanics of an Empire how many you start with if any yet I've seen some apps with it added in so I was wondering it we all start with a base of one Luxury Node unless otherwise stated.

Also expanding to the level I/II/III is that the max for the nation or for a region? Like I expand to Oil level 1 for region 3 next expansion is Level 2 no matter what region or does it have to be in region 3? I would assume it's Level 3 is the max no matter where it's at otherwise you'd start to see huge build up of oil resources.

Agree with Shazere on New Army. Double cost for the Veteran Units would make it a more balanced trait.

He posted in here (the discusstion) that we all start with one lux., one food, and 15 oil slots.

That works for New Army. I still support the prohibition on cavalry units though.

Also, after some thought it strikes me that perhaps we have too many units that require oil. I'm wondering if making Zeppelins not require the resource might open up a little balance. Also, what about Torpedo boats? The 30's were their heyday, and they could be pretty nasty.

I've consistently thought that we had too much oil. The whole point of resources is scarcity and competition, so if players aren't feeling the pinch then there's really no point.

other trait suggestions:

Cosmopolitan - The people here are creatures of the city and town, used to busy streets and bustling markets. Their presence and traffic also provides extra funding for civil construction.
- Civic constructs cost 20% less

Maritine Culture - fathers, sons, and entire families make their living from the sea, feeling more at home in a rickety boat than on solid land. Their naval skill brings them wealth from the waves and can be put to good use by the navy.
- Empire begins with a shipyard
- Shipyards cost 25% less Income
- Warships cost 20% less
- At least half the empire's provinces must border the ocean.

I also suggest that we add a third category of constructs - Civic constructs, which would refer to things like Opera Houses and Hospitals, and would usually apply to Public Approval or Imperial Reputation. Speaking of the Opera House...

Opera House - An Opera House is a sign of civilization and modernity in an Empire; No country can call itself cultured without at least one in its capital. They can awe visitors with their extravagant construction and appease locals with fine shows.
- Improves Imperial Reputation
- Improves Public Approval in region.

Got some other major suggestions in the works, but those are functional rather than traits, so I'll hold off until I think them over.

Oh thanks Majorie, I must have missed reading it.

EDIT: If you're a dictatorship but have a Prosperous Economy does the Prosperous Economy's Pro of 'Slight bonus to Public Approval' negate the effect of the Dictatorship's Con of 'Dictatorships have a more difficult time of gaining public approval' or does it just give a bonus to public approval rating and the dictatorship's con is always present no matter what making the slight bonus smaller?

No, dictatorship con is always present. It'll help but won't negative it entirely. As for the suggestions Talis, I like them. Just gotta figure out a way to implement them effectively. What I want to do is have one final product rather than continually changing it over the entire forum's life. That got messy, we all remember Warring Fronts. I promise however that all the changes should be implemented by the end of this week, i'm off work soon so i'll have lots of time to sit down and try to figure things out.

A few notes on constructs

-City Fort shouldn't be a prerequisite for Border Posts; each can easily exist independent of the another. Also, City Fort should be less expensive than Border Posts, since the former defends only a city while the latter makes the entire region difficult to enter.

-Opera House shouldn't improve Public Order so much, if at all; most nations' everyday factory workers and farmers aren't really ever going to spend their nights appreciating "cultured" performances alongside the social elites. Also, to account for potential diversity of cultures, we should find a better term than "Opera House." Even "Theater" would allow more room for interpretation, for example.

-

-Gonna restate my construct ideas:

Fortified Line - A vast and expensive network of trenches, bunkers, and fortresses provides a region with a nearly-impregnable defense from a single, adjacent region.
- Very enhanced defense along a single border of a region.
Cost: 400

Supply Depot - A dedicated system of military storehouses provides an army with a decided logistical advantage in battle, as well as a degree of ease in recruiting and replenishing regiments.
- Enhanced logistics in the region
- Reduced and broken regiments always return to full strength after battle in the region
- Recruitment costs in the region halved.
Cost: 500

Personally, I'm not digging the Draft Labor Aspect. First off, the name doesn't make sense. A Draft is when you are forcibly brought into the military, not forced to work.

Also, I find the Dictatorship Aspect completely under powered. The fact that it both starts at a lower Public Approval Rating -AND- has a harder time gaining it is completely without basis. Let's take a look at the many Dictatorships in History. Currently, the general population of North Korea is extremely happy and Kim Jong Il is nothing but a dictator. Nazi Germany, complete Dictatorship in all regards, was also a Dictatorship and the general populace were willing to give their lives for him.

There is plenty of instances in a country where a population has been drafted into work. One of the most recent examples being East Germany. You either had to join the military or if you opted out of that you were drafted into construction units. Not to mention numerous times civilians were drafted in after bombing raids to help clean up. But Dictatorship as it was is too overpowered. Because most people are going with Dictatorship then Martial Heritage to save at 40% costs, and starting at popular approval ratings. It's ridiculous and has to be balanced out somehow.

Vaklu had the intriguing suggestion of changing Dictatorship's advantage to a Security bonus (improved suppression of rebellions) and shifting the military bonus to Absolute Monarchy. It could work pretty well, absolute monarchies could be a bit militant, and fascist governments were always quite good at discouraging espionage.

Since a lot of people are styling their countries as monarchies but going with the dictatorship trait, I don't really see a problem with that. Suggestions for constitutional monarchies?

Hahahahaha.

Hahaha.

Bonjour tout le mond!

AspenIvan is a hard fellow to track down, I tell you!

That being said. We have a lot of work to do! Also, Shazere I don't know who you are but I appreciate the nod to Talis and I. I built the very basic of the Kingdom Trait System, he just made it work.

Bonjour Theo! Enfin, t'as decide' de nous rejoindre! Qu'est-ce qu'il t'a retarder si longtemps? Et pourquoi cherchais-tu moi en particulier?

Anyways, good to have you back, Theo. May I take it that we can expect to see your active involvement on a more permanent basis this time around?

Parce que tu es bon ami et j'ai besoin de toi pour tout bon l'ideés!

Haha. Is this like a WWI-WWII-ish type situation?

AspenIvan you know me! You know me!

XD Ne me flatte pas trop. Te souviens que c'est Talis et Shazere, non pas moi, qui ont construit les dernier duex forums desquels on etait partis.

In any case, yes, this is a WWI-WWII-ish scenario. I take it you have ideas to bring to the table?