General Discussion

People can start posting their apps now if they want, get the bulkwark of their histories out of the way and such. Also, someone give me new benefits / detractors for:

Command Economy, Mixed Economy, People's Socialsm. Go!

People's Socialism: People's Socialism is an economic system where property is held in common by the government and goods are distributed to the masses. Socialism has problems with motivating people to produce goods, so its industry suffers, but the system provides safeguards against economic collapse.

+Empire cannot achieve Collapsed or Booming Economy ratings
- -5%IP production

Command Economy: In a command economy your empire's government dictates what is produced where. There may or may not be a private industry, but the government has the final say in all cases. This gives the government access to 100% of the empire's resources, but inflicts significant costs on the economy and restricts personal freedom.

+ +5%IP production
- harder to gain Public Approval

Mixed economy: A mixed economy is balanced. Because it is both monitored by the government and run by the people jointly it is unlikely to see great booms or terrible crashes.
-Because the economy is so stable economy cannot enter recession.
-No negative or positive affect to IP generated.

Also, you switched back and forth between IP and MP in the military units areia.

I also have a question about political systems/gov't types. If I want to have a theocricy that is rulled by a monarch and the church what would my political system be?

Also most discriptors can obviously have one or two traits, but what about social, military, weakness it there a min/max per each?

As far as I can tell, Political System is mainly ideology - what philosophy or ideal the people in power hold to. So if it's Nationalism then they believe in the sovereignty of a particular people, and if it's fascism then they believe in a strong, centralized and militant government.

Yeah, and political ideology isn't finished yet. I need more traits for that. Okay, I posted the constructs. Tell me what you think of the prices? Too little? Note, this is not all the constructs..this is just to start out with. I also need some good causes and detractors for nationalism and populism.

Okay, I have a few issues with what we have so far, though overall I am quite happy with it.

-The resource system annoys me to no end. It's simple, for sure, but arbitrary. Farmland has more uses than just food, and even food can only provide so much of a domestic benefit before it is more efficient to export it. Plus, "luxury" encompasses too many different goods of different types to be a realistic label. Honestly, I am leaning towards a more WF-like system. Sure, it was complicated at times, but it allowed for a lot of diversity and conflict.

-The currently-proposed version of People's Socialism is under-powered, especially since Mixed Econ provides the same benefit. Also, I think it would be cool, though not necessary, to distinguish between State Socialism (the govt distributes resources to people) and things like Syndicalism (people own their own resources through collectives). Though I don't have the time right now, I would be down to draw up benefits/drawbacks for each system.

-Players should be required to state which of their forces are in each region, either in their application or in a PM to their moderator to place in a secret dossier.

Meh, I like the system right now. It's simple but effective to get us off the ground. I think we can tinker around and find out what works after we've launched. I did decide that open oil slots will generate IP, and maybe if someone can think up a creative way to do cash crops? Maybe crops net you cash (like cotton)? and other crops net you pop and public approval bonuses? And yeah, I agree with you. People should have to state where their stationing troops but via PM.

I like the resource system but wouldn't mind seeing it tweaked. And I totally agree about force distribution.

On the constructs - I don't think trenches should be a construct. They're more something sappers (everyone should get sappers/engineers) would build on or near a battlefield. In general I think the constructs so far are a little on the cheap side. A lot of the basic ones are good, but some (like region-wide defenses) should be much more expensive. Defending your capital from an attack is a palatable precaution, but defending an entire region should be something that's only justifiable if a highly exposed or coveted area.

What do you think of counter insurgenncy force as a specialist unit?

I am still wondering if there is a capp to how many traits you can have of a type?

I also think thre should be leagle a trait somewhere inbtween ruthless and civil liberties.

Also, is there a minimun requirment for negative traits?

The economy types are up, they are flawed I know but they are up. Decide what you want, what you want fixed, because I kind of ran out of steam and options. Need someone to step up to the plate and finish off the Political Ideology Tree, thanks.

what are flank units, they are mentioned as a trait benifit - are tehy flank towers?

is command economy supposed to be +20% IP, cause otherwise it's all negitives

Nationalism - The Empire stands by a people and for a people. Local customs and traditions become ceremonies of state and points of pride.

Public approval Starts one level higher

Trade agreements are less effective


Populism - Populists scorns the upper classes and intellectuals, preferring to extol the virtues of the "average man." This is all well and good, except that they often forget that average men are also part of the unwashed masses.

Infrastructure Constructs cost 10% less to build

War fatigue sets in faster

Aristocracy- The empire is run by the priviliged few. The land owners and wealthy who have been running things and leading armies since before the age of steam.

Air of command- The aristocracy have been leading armies for generations and are often sent to the best tutors for tactics and the proper way to lead men in the field and their confidence help to steady the soldiers around them.
+ Your Empire's troops only suffer half the effects of their current moral damage.

Extravagant luxury- The Aristocracy is accustomed to throwing lavish banquets in honor of whatever comes to mind at the moment. This often leads to a strain on the empires coffers.
- -5%IP production

Marjorie, that's flak* unit. It's a typo, btw social traits are up there. It's listed after labor.

I didn't see them before... maybe I missed them. XD And OIC it makes more senes. XDD

It really is a WIP anyway, it will change and change as things progress with the design of things... but I really just wanted a place to put my thoughts togeather.

People's Socialism is too weak, you can't deny it the Booming rating AND give it minus 10% IP just for protection from Collapse. We should stick to the original, simply having it be immune to Collapse and Boom.

Plus, I would like it if we could tweak the description of People's Socialism and possibly rename it State Socialism, but those are minor concerns that I can address myself, if you will so kindly allow me admin status.

ANYWAYS, here is another econ idea

Syndicalism: Rejecting both the state bureaucrat and the private executive as ultimate owner of the means of production, this nation's economy is managed by a network of trade unions or worker cooperatives. This radically direct form of popular sovereignty protects the dignity of the common laborer, but struggles to consolidate the massive productive capacity that more centralized and hierarchical systems can achieve.

-Public Approval defaults to Popular
-harder to lose and easier to gain Public Approval
- -10% IP production
-harder to gain Economy rating
-Economy defaults to Stable

By the way, where did Railway Guns go? =/

Here's a suggestion: Instead of having a % expionage system like WE (which I'll admit didn't really work), how about having an "Espionage Squad" unit? They wouldn't be partisans or fighters, instead they would act like spy units. Keeping them in a province you owned would grant counter-espionage and let you spy on your own people, while putting them in enemy regions would let you use espionage tactics or gather information. Kind of a total war solution, but it works. We could also have constructs that provide defenses against espionage and such.

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Economic Type: Mercantilism - Mercantilism sees economics as a game of sums. Empires are stronger they support themselves and export goods, and weaker when they become reliant on foreigners.

Public Service is Mandatory seems like a long name, can't we call the "Draft" or "Conscription"?

Breadbasket seems like an odd trait. Food resources should fill the role, so perhaps this should be renamed to something like "Mass Agriculture"?

It's usually a bad idea to give traits "starting bonuses." This makes them become irrelevant as time goes on. Remember that we can make certain constructs or units cheaper too, to encourage a certain line of development. For example Breadbasket/Mass Agriculture could make farms or resource harvesting constructs cheaper. Militarized Country could make military production buildings or defenses cheaper.

War Ravaged Nation is too subjective. Plenty of nations will be war-ravaged by the end. How about something like "Barren territory?"

I really can't see having super-heavy tanks in this era. I'll leave it up to you, but it just seems odd.

May I suggest replacing "Collective Farming" with "Industrialized Farming"?

Let's be a little bit with the period. How about replacing the term "Flourishing Culture" with "Advant-garde?" It would imply the sort of Parisian cosmopolitanism that would be admired in this period.

Also, you could use a couple traits that involve technology. What about "Cutting Edge" or "Industrialism" for empires that have well-developed technology and an advantage over enemies?

I'll close with a an idea I actually had for Warping Empires that never got implemented:
First, I had realized that the unit status system could actually be expanded. If I can have status for weakened units, why not have a "Boosted" status for units fighting with a morale or efficiency advantage?

I'm thinknig that the public service is mandatory trait is too strong. Who agrees? And yeah, I agree with a lot of what both of you are saying. I'll make the changes.

Okay, the relevant people have been made moderators. Aspen, if you can I want you to focus on the economy types and try to fix them. Add whatever government types you want. It's my birthday tonight so I won't be on and then I work tomorrow, but then i'm off for three days so expect the forum to be up and running at full capacity by Monday if not before.

Security construct suggestions:

Border Customs - Maintaining customs offices at major borders and ports allows goods and personnel to be inspected and accounted for when they enter a country, increasing the chance of intercepting spies or smuggled goods.

Security Headquarters - a security headquarters coordinates the activities of local police and border officials, allowing incidents to be analyzed and connections drawn.
- requires Border Customs to construct

Also, we should have construction requirements for other constructs. You shouldn't be able to build a flak network until your capital is covered, for example.

Wonder construct suggestions:
Note that all "wonders" would have special limitations - you could probably only get one of each (or just one), they'd be expensive, and they would have an oil cost as well as income.

World Fair - A "World Fair" is a massive exhibition, miles large and containing wonders and architecture of all kinds. It is an opportunity for an Empire to advertise its culture, technology, and influence.
- Permanently boosts Imperial Reputation

Ok, I put up a lot of the little fixes in the Mechanics section. The Public Service is mandatory trait has been changed to Draft and has been dialed back to a 10 percent bonus rather than 25, which was way too high. I'm going to work on the Specialit Unit Prices tomorrow and yes Railway Artillery is now a specialist unit. Have fun with it. BTW, the map is finished! Go place yourselves.

Revised Econ types:

Free Market Capitalism:
This nation has put its faith in letting the market decide, which according to the economic conditions can be a good thing or a bad thing. The government has little control over the levers of the economy, when it booms it can lead to massive revenue increases but when it goes bust the government can't do much to stop it.

- 15% bonus to IP when Economy rating is Stable or higher.
- 20% penalty to IP when Economy enters Recession or lower.
- Easier to lose Economy rating
- Economy defaults to Stable

Oligopolistic Capitalism:
A system where industry and economy are ruled by extremely wealthy private executives. These executives are often willing to work with their government, providing a superior amount of Industry at the government's beck and call. In addition, oligarchs tend to manage the economy well for their own benefit. Unfortunately, the structure of oligarch rule causes significant misery among the abused working class, resulting in large amounts of unrest.

- Oil and Luxury Nodes Produce 10 extra IP
- Public Approval defaults to Unpopular
- Easier to lose Public Approval
- Economy defaults to Prosperous

Command Economy:
In a command economy the government dictates what is produced where. There may or may not be a private industry, but the government has the final say in all cases. This gives the government access to 100% of the empire's resources, but inflicts significant costs on the economy and restricts personal freedom.

- 20% bonus to IP
- Public Approval defaults to Unpopular
- Harder to gain Public Approval
- Economy defaults to Recession

State Socialism:
State Socialism is an economic system where property is held in common by the government and goods are distributed to the masses. Socialism has problems with motivating people to produce surplus goods, so it struggles to achieve economic extravagance, but provides safeguards against economic collapse.

- Public Approval defaults to Popular
- Empire cannot achieve Collapsed or Booming Economy ratings
- Economy defaults to Stable

Syndicalism:
Rejecting both the state bureaucrat and the private executive as ultimate owner of the means of production, this nation's economy is managed by a network of trade unions or worker cooperatives. This radically direct form of popular sovereignty protects the dignity of the common laborer, but struggles to consolidate the massive productive capacity that more centralized and hierarchical systems can achieve.

- Public Approval defaults to Popular
- harder to lose and easier to gain Public Approval
- 10% penalty to IP
- harder to gain Economy rating
- Economy defaults to Stable

Mercantilism:
Mercantilism sees economics as a game of sums played by governments with strong levers, though not necessarily total control, over their markets. Empires are stronger when they support themselves and export goods, and weaker when they become reliant on foreigners. This philosophy fosters powerful engines of commerce when the sums favor the empire, insecurity and fear when they do not.

- Trade-related constructs generate 10% more IP
- Trade agreements with nations of lesser industrial power (measured by total IP revenue) are more effective
- Trade agreements with nations of greater industrial power weaken Economy rating
- Economy defaults to Stable

Mixed Economy:
This empire's economic policy is a matter of careful pragmatism and extensive compromise. A sensible mix of state, private, and popular controls ensures that the interests of all stakeholders in the economy are accounted for. However, with no side fully satisfied and no strong economic ideology to unite disparate factions, this balance is difficult to maintain. It takes only a single unwarranted concession of power to upset such a precarious equilibrium.

- Public Approval defaults to Popular
- Cannot achieve Unanimous Approval rating
- Susceptible to sudden change in Economy Type
- Economy defaults to Stable

These systems look good, but they're too complicated. How are you going to keep track of contingencies like other empire's IP, and how will GMs manage "susceptible to sudden economy changes"?